Gotta stop confusing CCP supporters for leftists
Of course, but I didn’t thought there were so many of them here.
They’re all over hexbear and lemmygrad
Omg drama!!!
Did you see that lemmy.world has re-federated with hexbear and lemmygrad again?
They haven’t though? I just checked the list of blocked instances and they are both still there.
@stankmut@lemmy.world is correct, they’re not federated. Hexbear just has multiple irrelevant urls on the allow list. No clue why you thought lemmygrad was on their allow list, though.
Who in their right mind would do that? Oh, right, the Lemmy.world guys are fucking morons. They also blocked !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com a few months ago, for no real reason.
Just like neighborhoods in real life, you have to find a neighborhood you like. I wish it was more explained when you first sign up, but it does matter what instance you make your home. That instance decides what’s on your front page and the tone of your stay on Lemmy. Lemmy.ml is not a good fit for you it seems like, so try another neighborhood (or instance).
avoid lemmy.ml, lemmygrad and hexbear
Which of the two?
Gotta stop pretending “left” and “right” are useful labels to apply to politics too.
They are useful, but as any other category they can be instrumentalized.
They aren’t useless, but they are pretty broad strokes that will always have a use as long as we’re talking about any de facto two party states (e.g. those with FPTP voting systems).
It’s also worth remembering that the population of one country’s idea of left wing politicians might actually end up being right wing elsewhere (for instance, people in the US saying their democratic party are lefty when in most of Europe they would be considered center-right or just plain right-wing).
That’s not what makes the terms useful.
US Democrats aren’t left and the term is still useful in European politics.
I’m not really saying what makes them useful, that’s a long list. I was more going for saying they’re not useless, but are potentially pretty ambiguous without additional context due to how people use them.
Please elaborate how “equality” and “hierarchy” based policies aren’t useful labels for politics anymore.
c/iamverysmart
I’ve always liked a 2 axis spectrum. Social ownership/ private ownership on one axis. Authoritarian / libertarian on the other.
You’re right
The current situation is certainly making that clear.
Especially “horseshoe” politics. Leftist just means centrist.
Horseshoe theory is basically regarded as nonsense by anyone that knows about politics.
It’s pretty much only parroted as alt-right propaganda these days
According to the political compass, authoritarians are up-ists.
CCP supporters = wumao
The irony is that the only Lemmy instances blocked in China are the tanky ones.
This comment doesnt make sense. I think its time for you guys to brush up on the difference between leftist and liberal left. CCP and leftist have the same agenda.
China is a corporatist authoritarian state. Basically late stage capitalism with a bunch of steps skipped. Corporations married to the government. Where the right wing in America is headed.
Being new to Lemmy I’m very taken back by the amount of communist supporters everywhere. Where my capitalist bros at?
Lemmy is a community hosted system, and a lot of the user base came here after leaving other platforms (mostly reddit) because of the owners making it worse and worse trying to copy other platforms like tiktok.
And you’re wondering why everyone here has problems with capitalism.
That’s not even mentioning the other huge problems with capitalism.
Tankies were here before the reddit exodus. They had their own mini exodus a whole back
What?
FOSS is great, I like the idea of people from all over the world contributing towards software that benefits the user rather than the creator.
I fail to see how that equates to “communism good” though. That’s a huge leap in thinking. Really weird when surely most people on here live and benefit from capitalist societies.
I fail to see how that equates to “communism good” though.
The problem is that very few people make the decisions that impact everyone on the platform, which ends up meaning “capitalism bad”. Fixing that problem with a system that’s basically owned by users is sort of like making the system communist.
surely most people on here live and benefit from capitalist societies.
Sure, they live in capitalist societies, but do they honestly benefit from it being capitalist more than they would from it being communist or socialist? Are they really better off in a system that inherently increases inequality rather than decreasing it?
“you say capitalism but yet you live under capitalism, checkmate” doesn’t really work, because you don’t just get to choose the economic system you live in
Sure, capitalism has brought significant improvements to quality of life, but given that the systems that preceded it were largely feudalism and subsistence farming, that’s not really a high bar.
And it certainly doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t continue to develop economic and social systems that are even more equitable.
You’re not even federated with the tanky instances…
I give you a hint: lemmy is a decentralized, non commercial platform. The cap*talists are still on r*ddit
The captalists are still on rddit
Not all of us.
They’re on exploding-heads.
I’ve put some thought into how to respond to this but I just can’t get past “capitalism bros” so I’ll just say this, you can criticize the current market economy system most of the west has without being a full on communist. And those that are content with capitalism aren’t going to go out of their way to be a “capitalism bro”. So of course dissenting voices to the current status quo are going to be amplified here. Try to learn from others perspectives instead of seeking validation
I meant that light heatedly but I see how that could come across as an immature comment. I guess where I’m coming from and failed to articulate in a constructive way is that I’m surprised there’s so much support for communism when likely most of the people on here live in capitalist societies that though have issues still allow them enough freedom to make those statements without fear of punishment.
There is no “lemmy”, every instance is unique. Just don’t waste your time with the fascist instances
Do you have any recommendations on finding more centrist lemmy instances? Because there is an extreme left and right which seems clear amongst quite a few instances and I don’t want to be a part of any of them.
I’ve never seen a right wing instance. I guess they are not federated with Lemmy.world
That appears to be what’s happening. I think at this point I should probably set up my own instance to federate multiple sources and not be stuck with one specific content filter. Not right-wing at all (truthsocial already contains most of those… people, hard pass), just more a mix of everything.
lemmy.ca seems nice.
Centrist views are shunned by the internet at large. Both sides hate us.
Because a large number of people on boards like Reddit or Twitter who call themselves centrists use “I’m not a republican” as some way to excuse bigoted views on race, LGBT issues, etc. I suppose the opposite may be true if you’re in a right-leaning place and have left-leaning views, although I wouldn’t know.
While that might not be the view of centrists in general, that’s the perception of the “centrist” on the internet, and why people generally don’t like them.
There is a lemmyverse, or threadiverse if you prefer
Or, y’know, fediverse. The original term.
They’re not the same, threadiverse refers to the reddit-like part of the fediverse (lemmy and kbin for now) and there’s definite social barriers between it and other parts of the fediverse.
Underverse
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OP link us to the comment where you merely mentioned Tiananmen square and got banned for it
Further down, but it seems it was more about mocking the president and saying that China and Russia were dictatorships. Maybe…
We’ve already seen the modlog and know you were banned for racism.
Which comment was racist ? 🤔
The ones where you called Xi a yellow animal. Also if you aren’t Asian shut the fuck up with “oh but it isnt racist”. I’m part Asian and that shit is racist.
I have to admit I probably would have read yellow in that context to mean ‘cowardly’ rather than with racist connotations but I can see how it could be taken that way.
Didn’t the whole Winnie the Pooh moniker originate within China itself? It was only picked up in the US like years later.
Winnie the Pooh is a stuffed teddy bear, not a “yellow animal”
I wasn’t saying that about the color… Asians aren’t even yellow… wtf is your stuff about saying Chinese are yellows ??? Is that an American thing ?
Asians are depicted and referred to as yellow in racist caricatures.
In OP’s defense, is it possible that they were referencing the Xi as Winnie the Pooh meme? Pooh is in fact yellow and is ostensibly an animal.
I dunno, I wasn’t there for the larger context, but it seems at least possible that this is what happened.
I will take my downvotes now.
That actually sucks and I do not agree with that.
You’re free to check the modlog, rather than lying that you were “banned for mentioning Tiananmen Square”
Dude’s never been called yellow and it shows. Fuck off.
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to frigging hotels and summer camps
In Russia. Believe whatever propaganda you want, no matter how you spin it, no matter how well treated the children actually are, it’s still a war crime, it’s still stealing children. The warzone only exists in the first place because of Putins invasion, and it could end tomorrow if he wanted.
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Bullshit. Russia is invading Ukraine, there is ZERO justification for that, NONE. If they want to keep Ukrainian children safe, they need to stop invading their country, not kidnap them from their families and forcefully immigrate them to Russia.
Russia can stop invading Ukraine any time they want. Ukrainians will never stop trying to defend their country. Russia, and Putin specifically, is the one at fault for every single life lost in this war. The fucking gall you have to victim blame Ukraine when they are literally fighting a defensive war against an invader is insane.
A war he started for no legitimate reason. You don’t get to take credit for saving people from a tragedy you intentionally caused.
Unless you’re a cartoon villain with a redemption arc.
He is keeping Ukraine a fucking warzone.
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Lol fucking wake up and stop drinking Russian kool aid.
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He’s a dictator, everything Russia does is his idea
Russians? Last people Ratin would ask are russians. He just wants to stay in power, that’s it, he doesn’t care about russians or “keeping Ukraine neutral”.
Why doesn’t he give them back to ukraine then? or at least an international third party?
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don’t see where you mentioned Tiananmen Square
If they told the truth, how could they make a post about being a victim of the evil “lefties?”
Nah, they got banned for being too leftie
Banned for making bad (and kind racist) “xinnie the poo” jokes, lmfao
Question: How is a “xinnie the poo” joke racist when it refers to one individual specifically?
Has it already advanced to be used against all chinese?It isn’t. It’s not saying Chinese people look like Winnie the Pooh. Or even than he looks like Winnie because he’s Chinese or asian. It’s just a coincidental resemblance. And people wouldn’t use it as a pseudo-insult if it didn’t upset him so much. Which is kind of baffling why anyone would be upset at that comparison; it makes you seem lovable.
Not sure why Winnie the poo is marked as racism when it specifically refers to one person and has nothing to do with that persons race
Not sure why rothschild conspiracies are marked as antisemitism when they specifically refer to one family and have nothing to do with that family’s judaism
Honestly seeking explanation because this is new to me and I’m afraid to Google it. What is “winnie” a dogwhistle for?
There’s too damn many conservative dogwhistles these days.
It’s from a South Park episode. It isn’t racist, or at least it wasn’t, Hong Kong protesters and Tiwan use it regularly. It’s just making fun of Xi Jinping as an individual.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_Winnie-the-Pooh_in_China
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/23/1165504942/winnie-the-pooh-xi-jinping-china-film
Oh the Winnie the Pooh comic thing. I laughed at that, but didn’t realize it was turning into a bigger thing. Got it.
Not sure why $oro$ is marked as racism when it specifically refers to one person and has “nothing to do” with that person’s race.
Really makes you think.
nothing to do with that persons race
Oh, really? Comparing an Chinese man to a yellow skinned character has nothing to do with race?
Comparing a Chinese man who looks like Winnie the Pooh to Winnie the Pooh has nothing to do with his race yes.
doesn’t look like that was what you were banned for
And calling the uhygur genocide bad is spreading nazi disinformation ? Hahahaha
I’m not going to look up the context, but if you’re randomly shouting “uhygur genocide” in a thread about UN voting to end US embargo on Cuba, US and Israel oppose, that specific type of whataboutism does sound suspicious like parroting nazi disinformation.
It’s spreading US disinfo, which might as well be the 4th Reich soooo yeah pretty much
I used to think people talking about “horseshoe theory” were all bullshitters. Because I had never seen people on the left unironically doing anything close to what the right does.
Then I saw the tankies on Lemmy. I’m still a proud leftist, but geez nothing has made me question that stance more than seeing how fervently the tankies deny genocides and defend aggressive warmongering—as long as the country perpetrating it is one that calls itself “communist”, or is a successor to one that used to call itself communist. Exactly the same way the right and centre-left do regarding Israel’s genocides. Lemmy’s tankies are way more similar to the nazis of other social media than any other group around.
Which scares me a little as someone who basically completely agrees with them on economic issues.
I’m still a proud leftist, but geez nothing has made me question that stance more than seeing how fervently the tankies deny genocides and defend aggressive warmongering—as long as the country perpetrating it is one that calls itself “communist”, or is a successor to one that used to call itself communist.
If that were true then we’d all be falling over ourselves to defend Pol Pot instead of calling him a shit and a CIA puppet and not wanting anything to do with him.
See also the most common opinion on Gonzalo (yes I know there are Gonzalites, haven’t seen them around here though).
You see that’s kind of where the problem is. You can say there’s a genocide and I can say “where” and that gives me the vibe of a genocide denier. I’ve looked for evidence, I’ve asked for evidence, but the best I’ve ever gotten is a satellite image of some prison in China, some (AI padded) mugshots with no context, and some thorough browbeating by very serious liberals.
Let me put this another way. I’m of Jewish descent. My great aunt was in a camp. I’m not trying to “deny” any genocides, but what should my standard of evidence be? Particularly when there is a clear incentive for western media to create false narratives about their enemies, and have done so before?
If you have something to present that I haven’t seen, I and the other “tankies” are wide open to engage with it.
You can pretend all you want that you’re “just asking questions”, but that doesn’t change facts. The Uyghur genocide has been very well-established for a long time now.
The Chinese propaganda trying to deny their genocide has the same vibes as that time a Chinese official went on a western political current affairs show and said “you have a voting democracy, we have a working democracy”. The fact that Chinese state censorship is so strong (while western media is not censored) means there is very good reason to distrust the reports from Chinese media when they are in disagreement with the majority of reporting from everywhere else. So yeah, I’m going to trust reports from high quality journalistic organisations like the ABC, rather than anything that’s allowed to be reported on publicly within China.
The irony here, of course, is that even if you take the Chinese party line at its word. That its actions are nothing more than heavily policing an area where there are dangerous terrorists and separatist. That’s pretty much exactly the same as the Israeli line. It boggles my mind that people can call out one but not the other. It’s not surprising for me that the right does it. There’s an element of racism there, and chauvinism for defending their political allies. And I’ll be honest, I’ve always associated the right with a denial of facts. But the fact that people who have the gall to call themselves leftists will pretend there’s nothing wrong is
how fervently the tankies deny genocides
wait did they deny the real ones or the made up ones?
Tankies on Lemmy like to pretend China isn’t committing genocide against Uyghurs.
Horseshoe theory only makes sense if you don’t think about it for even one second.
So, not surprised it makes total sense to you
Horseshoe theory doesn’t make sense. That’s the thing.
Until suddenly you start seeing people who call themselves leftists denying genocide. Which is something we usually think of as being a quality of the far-right.
(The obvious solution here, of course, is that these people who call themselves leftists…aren’t. Because if leftism is about equality, there’s nothing equal about subjecting a people and preventing the continuance of their culture.)
Ok, the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia committed genocide when they were nominally communist at the time. Is that good enough for you? It’s the most noteworthy example I can think of. Actually maybe the Shining Path too, in Peru. I never liked them or their methods.
The supposed genocide in Xinjiang is not at all the same thing. There’s no open warfare, rebellion, nothing to suggest what western nations are claiming is happening. The only evidence I’ve seen is that prisons exist in Xinjiang, and their prisons are much like prisons anywhere else on the world. All other evidence I’ve seen comes from one specific person, the deluded mind of Adrian Zenz. A man who cannot speak Chinese, has never lived in China, and he’s one guy.
Hm, so you’re saying that every political faction “denies genocide and defends aggressive warmongering”? Could it perhaps be that every faction gets accused at one point or another of genocide and aggressive warmongering, and it’s your responsibility as a political person to use your brain to figure out who is lying?
so you’re saying that every political faction “denies genocide and defends aggressive warmongering”?
No. Leftists who aren’t tankies don’t.
boohoo wittle baby got mad people are on their left.
There’s a big difference between being upset at some difference in ideology and looking at people sincerely defending or denying a genocide in the name of that ideological difference.
Except that I’m a Swiss socialist and that I’m taking my sources from very left wing ONG that I work with ?
getting your sources from a “very left wing NGO” how about actual socialists if you’re a ‘socialist.’ I get that you’re
SwedishSwiss, we have more people in prison doing forced labor in America than in these ‘genocide camps’ so it’s really hard to take people seriously when they act like ‘genocide’ in China should somehow be at the forefront of what leftists in the west concern themselves with.@sharedburdens Hahaha… Thankfully this campaign just started: https://youtu.be/0oNX_BHgi3c?si=xojukxKnUyZ–jFS
I can never get my head around why Tankies want to deny people the right to criticize two of the most end stage capitalist countries in the world, P.R. of China and The Russian Federation.
The U.S.A. is the same.
They should all fall.
So it was for calling the CCP president Winnie then ?
if i had to guess, probably. it’s somewhat of a plausibly-deniable dogwhistle for ‘asian = yellow’. not saying you meant that, just that I don’t blame the mods for their hypervigilance here
Oh wow. I honestly didn’t thought about that. I may be an ass sometime but… not like that :o !
no worries, thanks for being receptive
You hadn’t thought of it because it’s completely made up. Xi started getting compared to Winnie the Pooh by Chinese citizens after a picture came out showing Xi and former US President Obama together in a similar pose to Pooh and Tigger. Used originally for rather light-hearted ribbing of Xi, the Chinese government decided to crack down on it hard, which has had a massive Streisand Effect with the comparison between Xi and Pooh becoming popular in the West because Xi has shown how sensitive he is to it.
There’s no racial component to it at all. It’s all about being critical of the absurd censorship of the current PRC’s government.
i wonder why western redditors found a depiction of an asian president as a fat yellow bear and a black president as a character called Tigger so funny 🤔 definitely no racism here, no sir
There’s no racial component to it at all
That’s a pretty bold statement to make. Have you seen the west?
Wow, look at this racism denial from the same person who was criticizing Tankies for genocide denial.
“The meme was started by a Chinese person, therefore it can’t be racist” is just a new veneer on “black rappers use the n-word in music, therefore it’s not racist if I use it.”
Have you considered that the meme might have different impact coming from a Chinese person ribbing their leader than a white westerner echoing it? The former might be “light ribbing” but the later is racist. Who says a thing matters significantly on whether its ok to say. You know this very well because I’d hope you’d know that its not ok for white people to use the soft r n word even though many black people use it.
the Chinese government decided to crack down on it hard
Deleting some memes from Weibo isn’t a “hard” crackdown, westerners just want to pretend it is and for some reason still care ten years later.
Yeah, the comments of yours in the modlog are rude but the mod is definitely reaching and banning you for dissent
You were banned for whataboutism. We take it extremely seriously.
Taken very seriously, and applied very selectively. That mod team loves to put their thumb on the scale.
So if someone say Christianism sucks because it’s a religion and I respond by saying all religions sucks, is that whataboutism ? Excuse me if I just think that it’s better to criticize everyone than a specific group of person…
sure idk
sorry pal but all of your critiques are textbook whataboutism
That’s not really whataboutism, but it is flawed logic to conclude all religions suck just because you think one does. Whataboutism would be more like responding with “But other religions suck even more!” as a defense for Christianity.
Not agreeing with the system of having nations is one thing, but you can’t just not believe they’re there
Nations doesn’t exist, states does. It’s different.
Nations are a sociological formation that objectively exist in the world. Even fucking fascists have better education than you, and not because their education is impressive.
I’ve gotten into arguments in this instance in WorldNews (if I recall) where I strongly disagreed with communists on something. Nobody ever banned me.
Keep up the good work, mods, and thanks for addressing someone’s ban complaint
Ah. World news again. The modlog really needs to show which mods are behind the wrong actions. That’s a good screenshot, shitty comments but untrue reasons. Even lemmy code of conduct says that to fix a mod action it should be taken with the mod in question.
Every single time I see these complaints about getting banned I look through the modlog and find them saying something racist or transphobic. This isn’t an exception.
They said “xinnie the pooh” you absolute hotdog.
Thank you for that wonderful insult, I need to work “You absolute Hotdog” into my vocabulary! xD
Yeah, blatant racism. You are aware that’s a nazi meme, right?
Troll elsewhere, please. Lemmy users will believe you’re sincere.
Yikes, dude. “You’re trolling” is not a good look to be telling someone calling out racism. It makes you look like a nazi.
Nope, it’s not.
You think Xi the Pooh is racist?
They are from Hexbear, so they are just butthurt about Xi being insulted.
Yeah… We can look through modlogs and call out your bullshit, too, you know. Calling Xi Jinping Winnie the Pooh isn’t remotely racist nor transphobic. It started in China, from Chinese people, to a Chinese leader. It has nothing to do with race nor sexual orientation, nor is it even remotely close.
Your stupid accusations make so much sense when I see you are from hexbear, though 😂
Your username is referencing a fascist book
Enders game? How so? I read it as a critique of the brutal preemptive lengths a humanity first government will go to out of fear, not an embracing of it.
The author is a fascist
Is there anything in the text? Seems like that would be needed for it to be a fascist book.
Looking at the modlog (which is public info, you just have to log on to the web ui and scroll down to the bottom).
3 days ago mod Banned
@Starshader@lemmy.ml from the community World News@lemmy.ml reason: Racism expires: in 27 days
If you’re unhappy with the moderation on a given community, make your own competing community, with your own moderation policies. If more people feel strongly about it and agree with your views over the original, they can come to your community instead. There is no overarching ‘Lemmy’ to ban you; instances are all separate. That’s the beauty of Lemmy.
I think ultimately your problem is that ideas that were normalized to you on
just don’t hold up to scrutiny, and even the academic neoliberal consensus on most of these issues is different from what predditors treat as self-evident. Enculturation is like that, and I wish you a speedy recovery.predditors
What actually is that Stormfront reddit thing?
It’s an emoji, they have a lot of them on hexbear
the joke is that stormfront was (is) an infamous white supremacist board and your average reddit commentor is basically indistinguishable from that
Thanks!
for extra context, someone told me that its a screenshot of the old r/stormfront sub from back when reddit just didn’t give a single shit that the website was possibly the largest combined nazi / pedo bar on the internet at the time because they just didnt crack down on that stuff at all
Or that I’m not influenced by extremist narrative one side or the other.
Congratulations then, you’re the pinnacle of humanity, unburdened with living among ideology like the rest of us sloppy piggies.
Don’t you have it when you have to exist in a context?
Nah that’s my job.
What job is that?
You very clearly are.
You are not immune to propaganda
Apparently the problem with a state putting down a popular protest through overwhelming force and censoring all coverage or discussion of the event is that acknowledging atrocities is wrongthink.
This thread is like half hexbears. I envy all y’all other instances that have thankfully defederated from those nuts.
Our instance (Blahaj) was defederated for awhile but for some reason we’re federated again
And the admin has been silent on the matter since it was pointed out
It’s really annoying seeing their bullshit all over the place again
It’s why I went back to the lemmy.world account and stopped using lemmings.world
The uptimes are better on lemmings but lemmy.world has a better experience since there’s no Hexbear or Lemmygrad.
lol you casually make racist “winnie the pooh” jokes like any random right winger.
How is comparing xi to a ww2 British stuffed animal racist?
Is Obama a stuffed tiger?
Hong Kong is relatively the same ethnicity as China, right? And they were using Xi the Pooh memes? I don’t think it’s racist.
This thread is fucking hilarious great job everybody
You got to be a leftiest to be in a leftiest place, and you’re clearly just a reactionary.
none of their posts make them appear like a reactionary, just this one winnie the pooh thing that only hexbear has decided makes you definitely a right winger.
No matter how left you are, there’s someone lefter.
And they think you’re a Nazi.
I’ll ignore the fact that you’re lying about what got you banned for this response.
Even the western far right media has moved on from the original Tiananmen narrative, which it acknowledges was false. The actual events played out more accurately to exactly what China has always said they were.
The only people still pushing the original shit are anticommunists and racists because it’s more convenient to their goals to perpetuate it.
Try actually listening and learning the actual facts from people in the left and then you won’t run into this problem. You’re getting banned and ridiculed by actual leftists because you’re further right and less educated on this topic than the fucking media of far right conservative tories ffs.
This is what happens when you get your political education from fucking reddit.
Learn properly: https://archive.ph/24zzF
This is a bad argument, the telegraph reports something that someone said based on incomplete information at the time and suddenly their take is worth something because it agrees with your own views?
The telegraph reports on the leaked cables from wikileaks which confirm that diplomats had no reason to believe a massacre was happening, if you’re going to debatelord at least pretend you finished reading.
'even tory shitheads have given up on this line, why are ‘leftists’ pushing it?
Why would anyone give a shit what tories value or dont value? They dont trade in facts.
the british conservative party, famous fans of the Communist Party of China, who are well known for pushing pro-china news stories
It doesnt matter if theyre pro or anti anything. They just dont deal in fact.
They dont stop pushing a narrative because it turned out to be false, they stop if they think it wont bring immediate monetary gains.
What the tories talk about is a measure of what the current grift is for quick cash, not what stories are factual or inaccurate.
The fact that the Tories are reporting on it doesn’t make it a measure of if it’s true or not- they’re reporting on something from wikileaks which directly contradicts the entire western narrative. They’re certainly not doing it because it’s ideologically consistent with their goals.
Media and news reporting is going to be heavily filtered by what advertisers will tolerate- which isn’t necessarily going to be factual or accurate either.
None of that matters if its from the mouth of a tory, dude
If a tory is speaking, it is to trick you into giving them money. You cannot say “this has to be true/false, because the tories said …”
If a tory said it, it was a ploy for cash. Nothing to do with anyone elses ideologies or goals, or reality.
You’re just embarrassing.
See this is just a complete refusal to engage with the topic or learn anything. Have you grown as a human being at all in the last 10 years or did you just decide one day that you have achieved political nirvana and there is never anything else you need to understand or expand your knowledge of? Your refusal to actually learn anything is a deep character flaw and a huge personal failure.
I’m going to repost something from @Alaskaball@hexbear.net, maybe you’ll read some of it.
The Chinese description of the events leading up to and the day of the protests are very probably the closest thing to accurate that exists.
Numerous military buses, trucks, armored vehicles, and tanks being burned by the “peaceful” protesters. Sometimes the soldiers were allowed to escape, and sometimes they were brutally killed by the protesters. Numerous protesters were armed with Molotov cocktails and even guns.
The official report of the Chinese government from 1989 (translated here) shows that more than 1000 military and police vehicles were burned by rioters. And 200+ soldiers and policemen were murdered. Just imagine how much restraint the military and the police had shown.
Wait, how could the protesters kill so many soldiers? Because, until the very end, Chinese soldiers were unarmed. Most of the times, they didn’t even have helmets or batons.
What exactly happened in Beijing in 1989 that lead to this bloody affair?
The answer lies with two key figures: General Secretary Hu Yaobang, and Ambassador James Lilley.
Hu Yaobang was a member of the communist party of China and was one of the three major rightist-reformers that set China on the path its on today, the other two being Zhao Ziyang, and Deng Xiaoping respectively. Hu Yaobang as a reformer was also a spokesman for the intelligentsia and by the end of his life was well-beloved by the youth of China (we’re talking below 30 here, folks) therefore when he passed away the youth of China organized public grieving events with the largest occurring in Beijing. This is to say if Hu didn’t die from old age that year, none of this would’ve happened that year. This is to also say this event had nothing to do with “freedom” or “democracy” or whatever pigshit your favorite rush limburger propagandist spoon feeds you, it was a funeral service that was hijacked to unseat the Chinese government - which so coincidentally is a speciality of the agency the second person we’re talking about.
Ambassador James Lilley, the son of an american expat oil executive for Standard Oil, was a CIA agent operating in east Asia from 1951 to 1981 with little officially known about him (I know for a fact he’s fucked around Korea and Laos, so it’s not a stretch to say he’s likely been involved with every conflict that occured during his official career). In his “post” CIA career he’s acted as a diplomatic liason to the provice of Taiwan, a teacher to future state department ghouls, and “helped” South Korea end its military dicatorship by helping the military win the election “democratically”, and abruptly five days after the death of General Secretary Hu Yaobang James Lilley was appointed as the US Ambassador to China by also former CIA ghoul and president of the United States George H. W. Bush. What an astounding coincidence.
Oh hai
That’s the difference with you. I learn in universities, reading reports and works. Not on echo chambers on the web. I just like to argue with people on the internet in a language I don’t master while I’m in the train.
Unlike you I actually have 2 degrees. If you engaged with this topic in this way in a university the history professor would fail you.
You don’t give a fuck about sources, evidence, or anything. You are utterly closed to new information. You are one of the most deeply propagandised people on the planet, from the most deeply propagandised population on the planet.
How the fuck are the sources they used “echo chambers on the Web?”
What are your sources then? Or are you just trying to invoke the idea of being so well read to cover up the fact you’re full of shit.
These are literally reports, what the fuck are you on about?
what’s a “primary source”?
Literally the US Army has published videos that claim they were involved in the Tiananmen protests.
Source is hexbear, opinion ignored
Wall Street Journal, a notorious Hexbear front to push sissypee lies
Except your source is some site named worldaffairs.blog
Let’s just look that up… yep about what I expected, conspiracy drivel
It’s literally quoting WSJ. Some liberal thinktank complaining about it is not relevant, even less so a think tank so vapid as to tacitly equate centrism with objectivity.
she also cited and linked to all the original sources which the worldaffairs site used, packed full of famous CCP-shill state-owned-media sources like: the BBC, Reuters, the Washington Post, CBS, the Wall Street Journal, etcetera
You all must be the biggest fucking rubes on the planet if you’re seriously citing a site which claims that CNN has a left wing bias
How do you function? Do you just lose money on scams 24/7? (donating to your political parties counts)
I have a lot of issues with sources I know are right wing because they often spin things in ridiculous ways. Despite that, there’s so much censorship on the internet the only places to look are on the fringes or in other languages.
Would it make you feel better if I cited a blog that takes lines from other sources out of context to change the message?
I’ve had my problems with hexbear but you’re literally doing the meme of going 👉😩👈 LALALALALA when someone actually backs up their claims with sources. Like why even bother asking for sources if you’re just going to dismiss them as “bad” no matter the quality?
His sources ARE bad, is the issue. Conspiracy blogs is not what I would call worth reading lmao
Only shitty source I saw was wikileaks.
🌽
