• MisterMoo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      67
      arrow-down
      42
      ·
      3 months ago

      I mean let’s be honest, that’s slightly better than US companies plus the Chinese Communist Party being able to do so.

    • sabin@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      57
      ·
      3 months ago

      Problems with this app go beyond just privacy and bleed into national security.

      You as a citizen of your country have an obligation to not freely offer yourself up as an attack vector for cybercriminals all so you could fry your brain with garbage media.

        • BaroqueInMind@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          35
          ·
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          Case in point: all the college protests. All the arrests happening are from people being encouraged on TikTok to become aggressive and angry towards apartheid. But the question is how the fuck is protesting at a college going to change what a government in another country is going to do in any way? The Israeli government gives little to no fuck about kids opinions protesting at a college campus in the United States. It’s likely civil unrest being spread by TikTok.

          • GarfGirl [she/her]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            27
            ·
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            They have very simple demands, they’re not giving some pie in the sky stuff like “have Joe Biden tried for war crimes and abolish capitalism” or something; the protests all have demands along the lines that their university boycott Israeli companies and cut ties with weapons manufacturers aiding the genocide. To claim otherwise is completely infantalising to the protestors who are risking their university positions and physical health to protest despite the police crackdowns.

            Here’s a link to the list of demands of the student protest in new York, for instance

            And here’s a picture of the list of the demands of the columbia faculty protest:

              • WalrusDragonOnABike [they/them]@reddthat.com
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                18
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                3 months ago

                The US government provides weapons for the genocide.

                One of the main campuses in the protests is opening a campus in Israel, which students are opposing until Israel ends genocide and apartheid.

                Many of the campuses donate money to or have partnerships with candidates and organizations that are also complicit in the genocide.

                Of course Israel isn’t going to stop genocide because a bunch of college students in the US don’t like it. But that doesn’t mean students have to sit idly as their tuition dollars go to fund genocide.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            24
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            3 months ago

            All the arrests happening are from people being encouraged on TikTok to become aggressive and angry towards apartheid.

            THEY ARE TRYING TO STOP THE GENOCIDE BEING PERPETRATED IN THEIR NAME

            WTF is wrong with you?

          • Kalysta@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            16
            ·
            3 months ago

            College protests have been a thing since Vietnam. Look up Kent State.

            It wasn’t China that gave them the idea, it was history.

            And it’s working. More and more people are sympathizing with Palestine the more the government overreacts to peaceful protests.

          • OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            ·
            3 months ago

            I’m not sure it’s true that the Israeli government doesn’t care about American public opinion, since they do benefit from American military support, but let’s assume what you said is true.

            Even if Americans protesting won’t stop the genocide, won’t end apartheid, I’d prefer that those atrocities are not committed with my tax dollars, with support from my government, in my name. The lesson learned from 9/11 shouldn’t have been “we need to enact regime change anywhere in the world where American interest are opposed”. It should have been “Americans better make sure they are OK with the things that their government is doing abroad”.

            I’m not OK with it, I’m not willing to risk dying in a terrorist attack so that Gaza can be levelled with “made in America” munitions. I’m not willing to risk dying in a terrorist attack so that oil companies and other big business interests have friendly regimes to collude with in the region as they scam the people out of their resources and freedoms.

          • NoLifeGaming@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            3 months ago

            If they don’t care then why did satanyahu come out in a speech against it? Protesting does work and does matter. You only need to look at history to see that

        • sabin@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          0
          ·
          3 months ago

          The U.S government doesn’t have the same ability as the CCP to just get whatever info they want out of corporations with no due process. The two are completely incomparable.

            • sabin@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              0
              ·
              3 months ago

              Do I honestly believe China has an easier time getting corporations to bend over and violate their citizens rights? Why do you need to clarify this??

              • The_Cunt_of_Monte_Cristo@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                edit-2
                3 months ago

                What is the difference if both countries access to user data at the end no matter easier or harder way? US is trying to block Tiktok under the name of national security but US itself has been violating other countries’ national security and privacy of people of these countries for years. What bothers me is people like you support this hypocritical action.

                • sabin@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  0
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Hypocritical action? China’s internet hasn’t allowed external companies to offer services since its inception. All I’m saying is if the US wants to treat Chinese companies like China has treated US companies that should be perfectly fine.

                  You’re out here complaining that China’s not receiving the same rights it fails to extend to other people and calling that hypocritical??

  • GrymEdm@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    147
    arrow-down
    31
    ·
    3 months ago

    Here’s Bernie Sanders from a year ago talking about how a handful of companies control the news people see, read, and hear. TL:DR - He makes the argument that it’s not fake news, that journalists are usually hard-working and honest. He says the problem is the limitation of allowed discussion - what topics make it to the consumer. He says for instance that he’s never asked about wealth and income inequality.

    I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control. If the issues justifying a potential ban were truly data security or mental health as some argue (not without merit mind you), then the legislation to address those issues would look a lot different and include companies like Meta, Google, Instagram, etc. Those are valid concerns but the new measure is clearly not designed around them.

    Finally, we’ve seen how Trump can tie up the courts for months on end even after all his self-snitching. Thus I very much doubt we’ll see any actual action in the 9 months + 3 months grace period laid out for the resolution of the TikTok matter. There are too many constitutional and business law challenges in my (admittedly layman’s) reading of expert opinion.

    • protist@mander.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      3 months ago

      I believe TikTok is being banned because as it stands now it brings topics outside the limits of allowed discussion to a lot of eyes in ways US government/companies haven’t proven able to control

      I mean, if this were true, that would mean you wouldn’t be able to find similar content on Western platforms. Are you really saying similar content isn’t readily available on YouTube? If so, what content?

      • GrymEdm@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        That’s a solid criticism and I upvoted. I hadn’t thought about YouTube. Anecdotally I’ve had factual comments about how many kids are killed, what Israeli politicians say, etc. auto-moderated into oblivion on YouTube. But at the same time I get a lot of the facts I use from YouTube (basically never been on TikTok) so it holds water. I also get a lot of info from other sources, but I can’t think of something specific I’d get from them that I could never find on YouTube.

        In my defense, I’m basing my opinion on why TikTok is particularly targeted on interviews like this one with Ted Cruz. He talks about how TikTok is specifically designed to push messages that are harmful to America, including what he calls pro-Hamas content but I suspect is actually anti-Israeli policy, pro-Palestine content. That is why I would argue there’s some evidence of a campaign against TikTok in particular that might skip over YouTube or other major platforms. Perhaps the Western powers feel that YouTube is still acceptably moderated towards their interests whereas TikTok isn’t. Perhaps Google is just too influential domestically.

        Edit: I found a video I was looking for: Biden talking about passing the TikTok/Israel funding/Ukraine funding package. A bit of language he uses that I think is telling is “it continues America’s leadership in the world and everyone knows it” which could signal US dominance as a motivation and thus TikTok as a target and not US companies.

        That doesn’t mean your point isn’t worth discussion, or that my points aren’t opinion. I’m interested to see how it develops. I’ve based my opinion on the conversations I can find and language used, but I’m open to adjusting my view if evidence prompts that.

        • protist@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          26
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          edit-2
          3 months ago

          I think this ban is completely agnostic re: content. The issue is more fundamental – it’s fully owned and operated by people in China. This is a geopolitical battle that is currently playing out across many industries. Social media grabs headlines where less sexy industry battles do not.

          I think Tom Nicholas gives a great overview.

          Also, fuck Ted Cruz with a 20 inch dildo. Don’t take anything that sniveling carcass has to say seriously.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            3 months ago

            it’s fully owned and operated by people in China

            US private equity firms own more than anyone. WSJ: What Is TikTok Worth? Some Say $20 Billion, Others Say $100 Billion

            [ByteDance founder] Zhang owns 20% of ByteDance, according to the company, though super shares have given him larger voting rights. Roughly 60% of ByteDance is owned by global institutional investors including Carlyle Group, General Atlantic and Susquehanna International Group. The remaining 20% is owned by company employees.

            The CEO is Singaporean Shou Zi Chew and the VP is American Michael Beckerman.

            • protist@mander.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              3 months ago

              TikTok is a subsidiary of ByteDance, and that the Chinese government exerts significant political influence over ByteDance really is not a question

          • Marketsupreme@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            3 months ago

            I think it’s a many birds with one stone situation - an industrial battle, a move to monopolize for Facebook after years of lobbying, Censorship etc.

      • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        22
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        3 months ago

        For one the YouTube algorithm is absolute dog shit compared to TT, which is literally the gold standard at this point.

        If you haven’t tried, you’re seriously missing out. It’s legit incredible how good it is. I hardly use it because I prefer long-form content (and don’t honestly have much time) but I absolutely can respect what they created

      • Tangentism@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        3 months ago

        Western SM is already in the pocket of the state and any content that goes against their values is suppressed.

        Pro-Palestinian content on Tiktok can easily get traction and receive over hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views.

        Considering that younger people are not watching regular media news, channels like fox just do not have comparative reach and they aren’t buying into the zionist propaganda like previous generations.

        There are a lot of content creators who are articulate, succinct and organisation has come out of it. People have created sites & apps that list all corporations and products to boycott because of their support for Israel and it’s had an impact.

        Sure, TTs algorithm can easily push you down unpleasant rabbit holes but that’s the nature of algorithms, not just specific to TT.

        So there might be similar content on western SM but it’s being held down and isn’t showing on people feed ‘organically’.

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      27
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      3 months ago

      TikTok is being banned for a bunch of different reasons all added together.

      Republicans agreed to it, among the other reasons, because Democrats will get the blame for it and it will hurt Biden at the election.

      Republicans and Democrats supported its ban because of sinophobia. It’s a big, successful business in America, there’s scaremongering around what data it’s collecting or ways it could be used to manipulate people’s opinions—ByteDance did not do itself any favours by coming out and telling all its American users to tell their Congresspeople to vote against this, which was spun as a demonstration of that power.

      They also support the ban as part of an ongoing backlash against “big tech”. Republicans are angry at big tech because they think it’s too liberal. Democrats are angry at it for being addictive, abusing monopolistic powers, and other quite legitimate issues. The problem is that neither party is very good at actually dealing with the problem, so they just lash out wildly at whatever comes along that looks vaguely tech. Not realising that in this case, that will give way more power to Meta and Alphabet.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        20
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        3 months ago

        I think the reason it’s happening now is because of the growing protest movement against the genocide in Gaza.

        All the other US media companies actively sensor pro-Palestine/anti-Israel content and TikTok doesn’t. Unacceptable!

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          3 months ago

          Maybe, but I don’t think so. The US govt is infamously slow and inefficient. I’ve been following this and it’s been a drumbeat that’s been growing for years, since long before Israel’s latest genocidal push began last October.

          If there’s any particular reason that it’s succeeded now, I’d put it more down to the upcoming election.

          • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            3 months ago

            Here’s US Senator Pete Ricketts saying that we need to ban TikTok because pro-Palestine videos “have more reach than the top 10 US news websites combined”

            The reason it’s succeeded now is because of Gaza. Crediting the election makes no sense, how does this help anyone’s election chances?

            • Zagorath@aussie.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              3 months ago

              how does this help anyone’s election chances

              It doesn’t help. It hurts Biden among younger voters. Because he gets the blame for this.

    • weariedfae@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 months ago

      Kinda like the not-so-unsupported conspiracy theory that musk bought Twitter to silence protest coordination. That Twitter was too useful to the ‘masses’ and the “sinister cabal” (not my words) said it needed to be taken out.

      To reiterate: this is not my position but it is one I’ve heard that matches the sentiment expressed in the parent comment

      • tearsintherain@leminal.space
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        21
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        What we certainly do know is that Musk bought twitter not to enable free speech, but to control speech according to his personal whims and beliefs.

        I imagine the Saudi’s went in with Musk on the twitter deal to also control and dilute unfavorable speech. The Saudi ruler is the guy that assassinated journalist Jamal Khashoggi on foreign soil because he wasn’t exactly a team Saudi ruler kind of guy.

      • GrymEdm@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        13
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        I 100% admit that my take on the TikTok ban is opinion based on the hearings and arguments + the scope of the bill, so you aren’t being unfair. I have never heard that about the Twitter purchase - I had read it was a poor decision Musk made only half-seriously and then was basically forced to follow through with.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 months ago

      He is wrong though. When the war machine gets going we 100% have fake news. And the Journalists do not matter just look at New York Times massive Zionist propaganda takeover.

    • reagansrottencorpse@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      3 months ago

      Anyone who has spent any amount of time on TikTok knows this is true. The narrative is beyond their control there, lots of eyes see. That terrifies them.

    • Wooki@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      3 months ago

      That is some top level propaganda. Mixing facts with half truths and fiction. Nice.

  • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    3 months ago

    I wonder if Tiktok will just make a seperate company that would comply before the 2025 ban comes to effect…

    Or they will just exit the US market, interesting stuff.

    I still think Glenn Greenwald views on this topic hold true.

    “ByteDance doesn’t have any plans to sell TikTok,” the company posted on its official account on Toutiao, a social media platform it owns.

    The sell-or-ban measure was signed into law by US President Joe Biden on Wednesday.

    “We are confident and we will keep fighting for your rights in the courts,” said TikTok boss Shou Zi Chew in a video posted on the platform this week.

    “The facts, and the Constitution, are on our side… rest assured, we aren’t going anywhere.”

    The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.

    • Tangentism@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      15
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      3 months ago

      The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.

      The fundamental ethos of the US and its propaganda of why it’s the greatest country on the planet is the first amendment and the current bunch are absolutely destroying that illusion in plain sight of younger generations.

      They’re sending billions for wars and to Israel supporting and assisting them in genocide yet are saying to the ones they expect to pay for it that there’s no money for healthcare, infrastructure, education, welfare, raising minimum wage, etc, etc, et al, and then still demanding they should receive their votes “because the other guys much worse”.

      I see a lot of younger people saying that both are shit, that the system is rigged and they ain’t playing their game anymore. That is tantamount to revolution.

      • jumjummy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        3 months ago

        Funny how you concerned citizens always seem to mention Israel without also mentioning supporting Ukraine. Almost like it’s not on your talking points list.

        If you don’t see an issue with a hostile nation state directly controlling something that is consumed by so many Americans, you’re not looking at it properly.

      • jimmydoreisalefty@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 months ago

        Yeah, not too sure why you would forcefully see it as a threat…

        If you already see it and think of a country as an enemy (boogeyman) than anything people from that country or gov’t says would look like a threat or to be a scary statements…

        At least that is how I see it…

        I hope we shall continue to analyze our own way of thinking and talking about such topics!

      • Car@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        3 months ago

        Imagine WW3 kicking off from TikTok. Not even a cool battle or anything, just massive misinformation campaigns to incite violence and false flag attacks

    • takeda@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      3 months ago

      The Chinese government has also dismissed such concerns as paranoia and has warned that a TikTok ban would “inevitably come back to bite the US”.

      If instead of getting anything they are opting to get $0, that actually confirms the “paranoia”.

      The fact that the two countries that are most accused of spreading disinformation (including using Western’s own social media) not only provide their own alternatives, but also bans Western social media shows that West wasn’t paranoid enough.

      • hughesdikus@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        Good riddance? Not really cause US still has clones of tiktok present like reels and shorts.

        Nothing will change. Data will still be collected. China can easily buy data from the open market. Mental health will still be affected.

        In fact, due to lack of competition, things will only get worse.

        US and India are 2 moronic countries