very_poggers_gay [they/them]

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I hope you can realize this is a false equivalency, but maybe you can't?

If you believe so little in democracy in the workplace, why do you bother with democracy at all? Should other institutions that govern our lives also function as oligarchies, dictatorships, autocracies?

The company wouldn't exist without owners, someone created it, someone started it, someone owns it. The owners are also the ones usually making the big decisions, they have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to the future of the company.

The kingdom wouldn't exist without monarchs, someone created it, someone started it, someone rules it. The monarchs are also the ones usually making the big decisions, they have a lot of skin in the game when it comes to the future of the kingdom.

Americans are so pro-democracy, but they'll bust out the most self-defeating, thoughtless, begging-the-question-ass logic to argue against having democracy in the workplace. Sad.

Employees are allowed to buy company stock and vote using it just like anyone else.

And vote with what money? Income inequality is arguably as worse as it has ever been. More and more workers are forced to live on wages that can't even cover their basic needs, let alone buying power, while the capitalist/owning class is hoarding unbelievable wealth.

How can workers vote with their money to overturn a system designed by wealthy employers to make themselves as wealthy as possible (a system that involves keeping employee wages as low as possible, btw)? That's the fucking problem, lmao.

Consider this: Wealth inequality in America today is worse than it was in ancient Egypt. Your "solution" is like asking asking what's the problem with the slaves of ancient Egypt not buying their way into power.

Especially if your company has more employees and customers than even a large city?

Why do those employees get the bare minimum? Why are the working majority excluded from ownership and decision-making in the companies they run?

Hey what are you some kind of Russian bo-


…

Checks Constitution


(Yes this is cringe but I want it that way)

Thank you for your comments they are packed with good info btw

Yes 

Uhhh the “National Socialist” Party was fascist, right? Entities posing as socialist CAN lie and actually be fascist, correct? Or is this western propaganda too?

Wait 'til you learn that urinal cakes aren’t yummy baked treats

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So many words to tell us you’ve read zero theory…

Also, how on earth is “Fuck cars” a successful “socialist experiment”? The biggest action anyone associated with that movement is flatten a few tires from SUV’s

Everyone I know that supports Ukraine does so because they feel for the victims of the missiles launched by Russia at schools and homes.

What does that support look like?

I, and many others in this thread, are very out of the loop.

Again, I have a hard time believing this is true. This is a war. People die by the hundreds of thousands, and eventually millions, in wars. Providing uncritical support (as most liberals and “Slava Ukraine” types do) for any side in a war is still encouraging more deaths on all sides of the conflict. It is not a Marvel movie or gritty political sci-fi thriller that so many people seem to think it is.

The longer the war goes on, the more people will die or be displaced, and the more money from working class people will get funneled into the military industrial complex. Nobody outside of the MIC is benefitting from the death and despair of this war.

Most discussions about the conflict outside of leftist spaces is just liberals and conservatives fantasizing about Russia getting weaker (i.e., its people dying) and America/NATO/“freedom” getting stronger. The rare person will acknowledge that Ukrainian men must die for the latter to be true, but the reality of those deaths is often minimized or even celebrated. As well, anyone who dissents is typically accused of being pro-Russia, a bot, or a paid shill.

See this freak

This is a top comment on the top post of /r/UkrainianConflict fantasizing about making a Marvel movie montage of a war crime, and other users lapping it up

Or click on any new thread and see all the highly rated comments like this, lusting for further destruction

It took like two minutes to find these examples, and there’s countless more on lemmy, reddit, and the like. It’s almost undoubtably worse on Twitter or Facebook too

I have the feeling you know exactly what I’m talking about. I’m referring to comments like this (and god forbid you see a discussion about the war on reddit, where they make up the majority and get the most updoots and golds from kind strangers!!!) who thirst for bloodshed; who’ve been propagandized to think they will benefit from continued bloodshed; and revel in the comfort of knowing they will never experience the violence they wish upon the people of Ukraine and Russia

Could be because the dominant narrative is just people (mostly Americans) cheering for more men, women, and children to be forced into the meat grinder by the thousands, just so they (who are cheering from safety on the other side of the world) can feed their twisted sense of justice and pro-American/NATO and “freedom”/“democracy” delusions.

redditors picking fights in comment threads below a post they couldn’t spend 2 minutes reading

Hexbears deny the genocide against Uyghurs in China

Denial of the persecution of Uyghurs in China

human rights concerns in Xinjiang

China is treating its Uyghurs well.

Uyghurs in China are being oppressed.

It’s a weird thing to lead a discussion with the term “genocide”, and then use it interchangeably with all these others terms, getting noticeably less precise the deeper into your post.

Also:

They control what their citizens can see on the Internet, monitor every communication happening through their messaging apps, and often detains, without trial, dissidents who dare to call out the government for its wrongdoings.

This is America, lol.

Right, now Tankie is all but useless because liberals and so-called leftists that criticize communism use it the same way conservatives use “woke”

Richard Wolff, a prominent marxist academic, talks often about a socialist system where democracy is employed in the workplace. He focuses less on reforms or abolition at the state/government-level, and instead emphasizes the bottom-up changes that giving workers power and agency (i.e., making it so workers at all levels are involved in the decision-making process of the companies that require their labour) provides. He has a youtube channel and podcast called “Democracy at Work” that provides great introductions to how he views things, and he has worthwhile podcast appearances on other podcasts like Lex Fridman’s, for example.

Consider how impactful countries like Wal-Mart or Amazon are in our daily lives. Their economic throughputs are larger than all but a few countries in the world, and their workforce populations are also larger than many countries. Clearly they aren’t organized as representative democracies?

Another question I wonder related to this, is what exactly makes “representative democracy” the gold standard? Is it even the gold standard?

What about the absolute lack of “representative democracy” we experience under capitalism?

I’d argue that the capitalist system is more at odds with representative democracy than other systems mentioned. Most workers have no say in what is produced, who produces it, how they are paid, how much products are sold for, etc. Instead, we end up with figurehead CEO’s and nameless investors making all of those decisions, and of course they do everything to minimize costs, maximize profits, and disempower workers so that they can collect billions of dollars at the expense of the workers who actually make their companies run. If we had representative democracy do you think we’d have billionaires?