Prepare for the 14year Olds on hexbear to come in and pretend that China has a great government
Fidel Castro is morally superior to every US president.
Very interesting how all those “pretend socialists” only exist in the third world, and all the “real socialists” existin the west. Yet all the successful revolutions have been done in the third world by “pretend socialists”, and the so called “real socialists” in the west have accomplished nothing. Their biggest success of the “real socialists” in the west being capitalist welfare states or social democracies that rely on old school imperial relationships to fund their welfare in a select few areas.
No Eurocentrism present to this line of thought here at all…
What do you think of Nelson Mandela OP? He was a very good leader, right? You know that he considered Cuba an ally and supported their revolution as Cuba sent troops to fight against the apartheid government in the border wars, took inspiration from Mao and called the Chinese revolution a miracle, thanked the Soviets for giving unending support in the fight against apartheid while receiving the a Lenin Peace Prize? So is Nelson Mandela now a fascist according to your meme?
OP determining whether to believe the US about socialist movements
Also look up double genocide theory and stop trivializing the holocaust by calling communists fascists.
Cuba is a beacon of progress and humanity in the Americas. Fidel Castro was a hero. Also a pro at dodging the CIA’s kill squads.
I agree. Fascist countries like Denmark, Germany and Canada often get called “socialist” and they have been disastrous for the reputation of socialism.
You have a lifetime of anti communist propaganda to overcome. You’re close, take the last step and realize you’ve been lied to about AES countries. No place is a utopia, but those countries are lights in the dark.
The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
Repeating CIA approved talking points to own the Tankies
When you give everyone in your nation a house, food, and healthcare while protecting yourself from the West that’s actually fascism.
What’s your opinion on Cuba OP?
Traitors who didn’t submit to the great Socialist country called the United States of America
This is what I’m expecting from them.
Cuba is an interesting one.
The problems with Cuba are political prisoners and their handling of AIDS. And a huge chunk of issues intertwined with the trade embargo.
As with all nations, it could be better, but it’s far from the worst nation in the world.
Better than the US that’s for sure.
I disagree.
By what metric was the USA better than Cuba?
Cuba literally has better rights for queer people than the US now, so yeah, I’m curious what metrics as well. Looking forward to some response from them.
Each year around a 100,000 Cubans are willing to risk their lives for a chance to live in the US.
The US is far from perfect, but people don’t get on rafts hoping to make it to Cuba.
“Rich country good, poor country bad!”
Very astute political analysis there
Notice how when confronted with facts the hexbear has no real argument but assumes being obnoxious is the same as making a coherent argument.
Cuban refugees carry a higher level of risk than other countries, and yet they still come. Ignoring facts doesn’t make a country better. You wouldn’t let a fact like that slide from the US. Hexbears lack intellectual honesty.
So once again, your argument is “rich country good, poor country bad”
No, it’s that saying one place is worse doesn’t make it so.
Human development index and quality of life studies put the US ahead of Cuba. Cuba isn’t a hellhole that many people make it out to be, but that doesn’t automatically make it better than the US.
Cuba has better healthcare and lower cost of living, but Americans aren’t on rafts to Cuba.
One of the problems with enacting good and lasting change in the western world is that life is pretty darn good on the whole. It could be a lot better, but just shouting that the US is bad is mindless propagada. Be better than that.
Cuba is failure but you could easily argue that outside forces made that happen, and it least it’s not a giga corporatocracy calling itself communist like China is. China feels like late stage ultra capitalism with shortcuts. Yay corporations are married to the government…Pretty much where the US is headed.
Why is Cuba a failure in your eyes? It seems to be doing better than other countries in the region. It has a higher life expectancy than the US even, and standards of living have risen dramatically since the revolution.
Have you ver been to Cuba? It’s worse than any other country I’ve been to in the Caribbean in terms of standard of living/HDI with way more of the authoritarian garbage you weirdos seem to like.
Move there. Send me a pic of your house. I will visit.
You’re actually just wrong lol. Cuba has a larger HDI than most countries in the region. And that’s while being economically strangled by the United States.
And what’s this authoritarianism you’re talking about with Cuba? It’s a democracy. And it’s got better rights for minorities than the United States.
Wtf does “Cuba if failure” mean? What a bizarre thing to say.
Also telling that you spent 95 percent of a comment that was supposed to be about Cuba ranting about China.
Y’all are funny
Educate yourself with blowback season 2.
“I’m socialist but i don’t support AES and believe US State Department propaganda” is not the flex you think it is
Westerners deciding who’s doing real socialism or not. Westerners expressing their most vile sentiment for foreign countries rather than their own imperialism. Westerners praising the words of their own imperialist intelligence agencies. Westerners unironically praising their own nations for civil liberties like the freedom of fascists to assemble, freedom of racists to express themselves, freedom of parents to own their children, and freedom of school districts to continue racial segregation. Westerners praising imperialist nations like Norway as socialist while using bold language like fascism to describe places under that same exact threat of imperialism, like Cuba and Vietnam.
Westerners claiming foreign governments are merely pretending to be socialist, while claiming unorganized misinformed chauvinistic westerners are the true heirs to socialism, despite all they do is post online and complain about foreign nations.
Westerners praising anarchist movements from 100 years ago despite having no common cause with those movements, no connection to the circumstances within them, and probably no actual admiration of them. Westerners praising a bastardized, sectarian, perverse form of anarchism rather than attempting unity with organizations in their areas. Westerners refusing to speak with actual anarchists in their area, who by and large don’t give a shit and just want to hand out food or help at shelters. If Buenaventura Durruti were alive today he’d be regarded with scorn by western chauvinists.
Westerners continuing to bring up Trotsky of all people, who wasn’t relevant to world affairs for the last 15 years of his life and certainly not the past 80 years. Westerners not reading a single word of Trotsky’s work, westerners focusing entirely on Trotsky’s feud with Stalin, westerners not knowing that Trotsky was a literal military commander. Westerners calling themselves Trotskyists in 2023 for some reason. Westerners deciding they have a feud with Joseph Stalin, a man who died in 1953.
Westerners attempting to praise their own socialist leadership, who happen to be a scattered group of imperialist-aligned social democrats, Twitch streamers, and actual antisemitic grifters such as in the case of Caleb Maupin.
Its hard to challenge your opinions when you gish gallup 500 talking points
You gish galloped, you ad homin-ed, you no true scotsman-ed, you one true scotsman-ed, and then you mot and bailey-ed.
Checkmate sir
Its ok to say you dont know what any of those mean. You dont have to make an ass out of yourself in the process
I believe you just engaged in a masked man fallacy taken to the ad absurdum.
Checkmate
I believe you just engaged in ligma balls fallacy with a terminally online spin.
Checkmate
Hey, that one was decent actually! Good job!
“I know why the Hexbear ppbs”
Someone learned something here!
What happened to PPB? I haven’t seen it in a while despite a ton of PPB worthy posts
I dont know what ppbs stands for
I looked through your post history and this is actually the best thing you’ve posted. Unironically good post.
I looked through your post history and fell asleep 😴
JK I didnt look through your post history because i don’t care about you at all
Good post!
I don’t know what any debate words mean and I refuse to learn.
90% of them boil down to one person saying “You’re uneducated on this subject, demonstrated by the fact that you’re wrong”
And the other says “You’re saying that because I’m uneducated I’m wrong! Haha! Ad-hom!”
But what they really said was “You’re wrong, additionally, as a side note, you’re uneducated and should feel bad about that”
OK, hecking epic sexist edgelord username haver.
My name is a hero from a tower defence game called bloons.
It’s okay to sat you don’t understand proper logic and rely on a crutch of cutesy little checklist items
DEBATE ME!!!
500 talking points and you couldn’t find a single thing to call into question
I dont want to be a victim of hexbear road rage thanks. You guys just vomit out material in hopes that you can string it together to form a cogent argument. Then you come back smug as ever asking why i didnt respond to the 10k talking points as if I was a human encyclopedia.
How would I distinguish you, based only on your reply, from someone who took one look at two whole paragraphs and decided you weren’t going to read that but had to keep arguing no matter what and spewed out some sour grape nonsense?
Its information overload aka gish gallup
Why did you bother learning the phrase “gish gallop” but not how to respond to it. Isn’t that the whole point of studying this shit?
I didnt learn i just parrot things I have heard before
How should we frame our arguments in response to a meme that paints every single prominent socialist and socialist country as fascist without addressing each one?
Really the burden of proof should be on the one making the claim, shouldn’t it?People confuse facism and authoritarianism all the time, and people respond to this as if they’ve never figured this out.
So instead of anything productive these threads churn out:
Omg communist countries are fascist!
actually no socialist!
lol oppression
Vs
hey why do so many socialist states end up being super authoritarian?
hey yeah thats a huge problem, but lets ignore it because west bad
You dont need to address each one. Pick one. I dont need proof to see that its too much information
How do you feel about essays and books in general?
Their comment was 337 words long. According to google the average reader can do 238 words in a minute. 90 seconds.
I dont read very good. Im just a brown person from Guatemala sitting in an internet cafe. I dont want paid 30 quetzales to read shit. I want funny hahas
If their post is short, accuse them of not engaging properly.
If their post is long, accuse them of gish gallop.
It’s hard to challenge my opinions because I’m cool as hell and I exude a pleasant aroma
Nobody’s interested in becoming an anti-communist. It’s you who must change your opinions because they are wrong
We’re talking about 6 countries and at least 5 people in the first place, and that’s only the ones named. Sorry, reality is complicated like that.
Warning: this is a hexbear user
Warning: 🚨 ⚠️ Hexbearian detected! Everyone, into the posting bunkers!
But is warning morally justified?
Yes
What is your moral justification for posting?
That it’s fun to do and informative to others. It might be fun for them too.
The reason I was asking morality yesterday was because that was the main question of the post. America bad and Russia bad are moral questions, so I was asking them as such.
I will admit that I am having fun posting.
Is fun moral?
Yes, because engaging with hexbears is a waste of time. They are not here in good faith. Either that or they don’t know any better, which in practice amounts to the same thing.
My post was an inside joke based on that users previous posts on our instance.
Have you engaged with a hexbear in good faith?
That’s a fair question and in all honesty the answer is no, because based on what I can easily see and understand of hexbears, they aren’t intellectually serious people and to the contrary are more akin to a kind of 4-chan trolling community than anything worth actual intellectual engagement.
I could be wrong, but so far I have yet to see any evidence as such.
So you wouldn’t engage with any of us in good faith, because you’ve decided that we aren’t capable of that
Google “line breaks”. Google “paragraphs”. Thank me later
That’s precisely the point. These guys have a toolbox of fallacious arguments and techniques that they regularly trot out. The Gish gallop is one of them. Another, that you see being put to wide use in this thread, is redefining words and terms to fit their narrative.
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Oh shit it’s the person from the original meme
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It’s funny that somebody who has made his account on here entirely to spread anti-communist propaganda calls other people a fascist. You’re equating the people who built Auschwitz with those who liberated it, you’re effectively a holocaust denier and a nazi. Eat shit and die, you fascist pig with your transparent wrecking attempts.
a lot of people in this thread should be thrown into volcanos to please the economy
You’re equating the people who built Auschwitz with those who liberated it
And then went on to commit a ton of their own genocide. I can’t believe you actually used this as an excuse to not call them facists. You’re just another tankie who is in complete denial about history and reality.
Only one who should eat shit and die is stupid ignorant facists tankies like you.
What makes them a fascist, genuine question? I looked through their profile but couldn’t find anything that would make me think they’re fascist, just edgy Leftist humor. Do you say that simply just because they’re on hexbear?
And what do you politically identify as? I could find even less about you to understand any of your politics.
I haven’t seen any fascists, as far as I’m aware, on hexbear but I hate fascism so I’d be willing to agree with you if you can explain.
The only open-ish fascist I have seen on lemmy in a while was that dude on the Japan thread sneering about third world immigrants ruining society
Hmmm. Doesn’t sound like the kinds of ideas that Japan would be open towards.
strike two
Slow down there buddy
NCDer
What does this mean I’ve never heard of it
Non-credible defense. It’s a millitary/conflict themed shit-posting community that started on on Reddit
The most active NCD lemmy community is on noncredibledefense@lemmy.world
Wait, this person who is bragging about going on a forum for praising NATO and war crimes is telling us we’re not socialist enough?
What? I’ve lost the plot.
chronic social democratic brain syndrome. This one appears terminal. They’ll support imperialism and anti-communism until they’re executed by fascists anyway for being a tankie
What is imperialism to you? Is it when countries around the world put Russian imperialism in check? Should we be praising Russia for liberating Ukraine by blowing up maternity wards and hospitals? Should we just let Holodomor v2.0 occur?
As always, such a hot take from Hexbear.
Should we just let Holodomor v2.0 occur?
Stop spreading holocaust denial
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NATO is leftist now, didn’t you hear? China and all the gross non-white countries are fascists, and NATO and all the nice clean white countries are based and leftist!!!
Non credible defense, shitposting about military stuff
thanks!
Excerpt from Michael Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds
Some leftists and others fall back on the old stereotype of power hungry Reds who pursue power for powers sake without regard for actual social goals. If true, one wonders why, in country after country, these Reds side with the poor and powerless often at great risk and sacrifice to themselves, rather than reaping the rewards that come with serving the well-placed.
For decades, many left-leaning writers and speakers in the United States have felt obliged to establish their credibility by indulging in anticommunist and anti-Soviet genuflection, seemingly unable to give a talk or write an article or book review on whatever political subject without injecting some anti-Red sideswipe. The intent was, and still is, to distance themselves from the Marxist-Leninist Left.
Adam Hochschild, a liberal writer and publisher, warned those on the Left who might be lackadaisical about condemning existing communist societies that they “weaken their credibility” (Guardian, 5/23/84). In other words, to be credible opponents of the cold war, we first had to join in cold war condemnations of communist societies. Ronald Radosh urged that the peace movement purge itself of communists so that it not be accused of being communist (Guardian, 3/16/83). If I understand Radosh: To save ourselves from anticommunist witchhunts, we should ourselves become witchhunters.
Purging the Left of communists became a longstanding practice, having injurious effects on various progressive causes. For instance, in 1949 some twelve unions were ousted from the CIO because they had Reds in their leadership. The purge reduced CIO membership by some 1.7 million and seriously weakened its recruitment drives and political clout. In the late 1940s, to avoid being “smeared” as Reds, Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), a supposedly progressive group, became one of the most vocally anticommunist organizations.
The strategy did not work. ADA and others on the Left were still attacked for being communist or soft on communism by those on the Right. Then and now, many on the Left have failed to realize that those who fight for social change on behalf of the less-privileged elements of society will be Red-baited by conservative elites whether they are communists or not. For ruling interests, it makes little difference whether their wealth and power is challenged by “communist subversives” or “loyal American liberals.” All are lumped together as more or less equally abhorrent.
Even when attacking the Right, left critics cannot pass up an opportunity to flash their anticommunist credentials. So Mark Green writes in a criticism of President Ronald Reagan that “when presented with a situation that challenges his conservative catechism, like an unyielding Marxist-Leninist, [Reagan] will change not his mind but the facts.” While professing a dedication to fighting dogmatism “both of the Right and Left,” individuals who perform such de rigueur genuflections reinforce the anticommunist dogma. Red-baiting leftists contributed their share to the climate of hostility that has given U.S. leaders such a free hand in waging hot and cold wars against communist countries and which even today makes a progressive or even liberal agenda difficult to promote.
A prototypic Red-basher who pretended to be on the Left was George Orwell. In the middle of World War II, as the Soviet Union was fighting for its life against the Nazi invaders at Stalingrad, Orwell announced that a “willingness to criticize Russia and Stalin is the test of intellectual honesty. It is the only thing that from a literary intellectual’s point of view is really dangerous” (Monthly Review, 5/83). Safely ensconced within a virulently anticommunist society, Orwell (with Orwellian doublethink) characterized the condemnation of communism as a lonely courageous act of defiance. Today, his ideological progeny are still at it, offering themselves as intrepid left critics of the Left, waging a valiant struggle against imaginary Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist hordes.
Sorely lacking within the U.S. Left is any rational evaluation of the Soviet Union, a nation that endured a protracted civil war and a multinational foreign invasion in the very first years of its existence, and that two decades later threw back and destroyed the Nazi beast at enormous cost to itself. In the three decades after the Bolshevik revolution, the Soviets made industrial advances equal to what capitalism took a century to accomplish—while feeding and schooling their children rather than working them fourteen hours a day as capitalist industrialists did and still do in many parts of the world. And the Soviet Union, along with Bulgaria, the German Democratic Republic, and Cuba, provided vital assistance to national liberation movements in countries around the world, including Nelson Mandela’s African National Congress in South Africa.
Left anticommunists remained studiously unimpressed by the dramatic gains won by masses of previously impoverished people under communism. Some were even scornful of such accomplishments. I recall how in Burlington Vermont, in 1971, the noted anticommunist anarchist, Murray Bookchin, derisively referred to my concern for “the poor little children who got fed under communism” (his words).
Those of us who refused to join in the Soviet bashing were branded by left anticommunists as “Soviet apologists” and “Stalinists,” even if we disliked Stalin and his autocratic system of rule and believed there were things seriously wrong with existing Soviet society. Our real sin was that unlike many on the Left we refused to uncritically swallow U.S. media propaganda about communist societies. Instead, we maintained that, aside from the well-publicized deficiencies and injustices, there were positive features about existing communist systems that were worth preserving, that improved the lives of hundreds of millions of people in meaningful and humanizing ways. This claim had a decidedly unsettling effect on left anticommunists who themselves could not utter a positive word about any communist society (except possibly Cuba) and could not lend a tolerant or even courteous ear to anyone who did.
Saturated by anticommunist orthodoxy, most U.S. leftists have practiced a left McCarthyism against people who did have something positive to say about existing communism, excluding them from participation in conferences, advisory boards, political endorsements, and left publications. Like conservatives, left anticommunists tolerated nothing less than a blanket condemnation of the Soviet Union as a Stalinist monstrosity and a Leninist moral aberration.
Related excerpt:
The pure (libertarian) socialists’ ideological anticipations remain untainted by existing practice. They do not explain how the manifold functions of a revolutionary society would be organized, how external attack and internal sabotage would be thwarted, how bureaucracy would be avoided, scarce resources allocated, policy differences settled, priorities set, and production and distribution conducted. Instead, they offer vague statements about how the workers themselves will directly own and control the means of production and will arrive at their own solutions through creative struggle. No surprise then that the pure socialists support every revolution except the ones that succeed.
Fun fact: the word count of the people shidding and pissing and cumming about how long this excerpt is now exceeds the word count of the excerpt itself.
Libs out here proudly being like
Gonna paste a comment I made a couple weeks ago. Seems relevant again, both because of the accusation levied against hexbears and also because Parenti.
Oh a hexbear. … You lot only have overly simplistic takes.
When we respond to blatant ignorance with carefully chosen wording, backing up our position with citations and links, and calmly explaining the nuance of complex geopolitical realities, we get accused of “always throwing walls of text at people.” When we answer that same ignorance with short and pithy responses, we “only have simplistic takes.”
There’s no winning with you simple-minded dronies, but I guess there never is when one side can just make shit up that fits their vibes-based outlook on the world.
Gonna paste a comment i made yesterday. Seems relevant again, both because of the accusation levied against deez nuts and also because why not.
Doubt
TLDR
Do you guys actually write this shit out or are you ctrl + v from some source? Every time i see hexbears they write up a whole journal article as a comment that most likely nobody is going to read.
…I said “Excerpt from Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds,” because it’s, uhh, an excerpt from Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds.
I copied it from a pdf of the book I cited because I found it relevant. Really, if you want to fully understand how fascism and communism are different and not comparable, you should read the whole book. I know, I probably sound like a crazy person for suggesting that people read a whole entire book to better understand politics instead of going off vibes, but that’s just how I roll I guess.
most likely nobody is going to read
Being too lazy and uncurious to read a handful of paragraphs is not something to be proud of
Say it with me now
No investigation…
Sorry i am dumb and cant read good. You see I grew up in the streets of Zacapa where a poor little brown child like myself cant get a fine white privileged education like yourself. You are going to have lower the IQ of this conversation for me so I can understand
It’s a quote from a book they read. You should try reading books sometime, it’s cool.
If you want a summary, the last two paragraphs they quoted could serve as one.
Can you read,serious question?
It’s a bit fucking stupid to ask that question through the medium of the written word, no?
It’s probably still less stupid than asking whether the clearly labelled excerpt from a clearly labelled book and author is copied “from some source”
Agreed there
No he wasn’t asking it seriously obviously
Then they are an idiot for saying “serious question” then, aren’t they?
You are the only one you didnt seem to get it moron
At least I know what serious means haha
I bet you are one of those retards thats says literally but means figuratively.
Nope, I was born and raised in central america so I am clearly just a standard illiterate brown person.
Very funny
The funniest part is that it is true
Are you asking if she copied and pasted an excerpt from a book? Yes, of course she did. Lol
Edit: If I took a video of myself retyping it or writing it by hand, would you read it then? I’ll do it.
Just read it ffs you libs are just the laziest
Im actually a cracker… no wait im a fascist… or am I a conservative?? I dont know you hexbears call me everything i dont remember where we left off
You’d be better able to define what you are on ideological grounds if you’d read
Why not all of the above, and a dedicated idiot to boot?
Sorry can you dumb that down for me please
I probably couldn’t stoop down that low if I tried
I dont remember talking to you… are you the same person with multiple accounts?
It’s like 2 sentences. Your post is practically the same length
It’s 11 paragraphs – click to expand.
Strange it’s only showing the first 2 sentences on the app I’m using
I think a part of good, honest discourse is recognizing and respecting the time of the person you are talking with.
If you are going to respond with 11 paragraphs quoted from a book, you should preempt it by saying something to diffuse it. Something like, “oh man, this is super long but actually quite beneficial. I wrote a tldr though at the end in case you don’t have time to read the whole thing.”
I use this site while I’m at work. I literally don’t have time to read all of that lol.
That’s why I put it behind a spoiler to avoid clogging up the thread.
I put in the time of reading the book in the first place, then I remembered a relevant bit so I went back and looked through the book to try to find it, read through it again to make sure it was actually relevant, edited it because it was from a pdf and had wierd line breaks, and considered which parts were relevant to include and whether I should omit some of the examples. I cited that book not only because it expressed what I wanted to say, but also because it’s written in a modern style that’s easier to read than many socialist works.
I guess I’m just used to an environment on Hexbear where people are more receptive towards reading relevant theory and some of us actually read not just posts and excerpts, but whole entire books. Maybe I should’ve just posted Pig Poop Balls instead.
I don’t doubt that you were doing it in good faith, but the execution was still in such a way that it is off-putting.
You have nothing of substance to contribute. Just “waaaaah your comment is more than a few sentences.”
Say what you want, 11 paragraphs is objectively longer than what most people want to read on social media. 11 paragraphs is just annoying and unproductive.
You can see I’m right because literally everyone who isn’t a hexbear is like wtf is this. It is bad communication.
In the time you’ve spent pissing and moaning about that comment you could have read it five times over.
You don’t have to click the spoiler. It’s literally one line you can easily scroll past, but some people who have more time might find it interesting.
Anyway it’s a response to a pretty low-effort, unoriginal meme, the whole “proportional time” thing cuts both ways. I’ve added more to making these comments a meaningful, intelligent dialogue than OP did.
I will respectfully disagree that throwing in 11 paragraphs of some text without explanation adds to a meaningful dialogue
I will respectfully disagree that you can make that evaluation without knowing what the text actually says.
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You are wasting your time shitposting on social media. Your time means nothing. I respect neither it, nor you.
Likewise 😘
Oh lmao it’s the Topic Decider.
Was I deciding a topic just then?
No, I’m just amused that you consistently put so much effort into decrying reading. Much more so than just doing the reading.
On Hexbear we regularly bully each other into reading entire books when someone has a bad take. This is mild.
11 paragraphs is like one single page, maybe two.
Good for you guys
Educate yourself or shut the fuck up. Otherwise, don’t act surprised when you’re ridiculed for constantly voicing worthless thoughts.
educate yourself and everyone around you
In this case, I’m just saying throwing 11 paragraphs of some random essay isn’t a good way to communicate. I’m all for education.
Someone else already said that the last 2 paragraphs are basically a summary of the whole book, try reading those and see if the other 9 interest you
It would be good for you too. I see less whining about having to read two pages in 5th grade classrooms.
But in fact you don’t have to! No one is forcing you to engage.