First, this conversation has little to do with fair use. Fair use is when there is an acceptable reason to break copyright. For example when you are making a parody or critique or for education purposes.

What we are talking about is the act of reading and/or learning and then using that information in order to synthesize new material. This is essentially the entire point of education. When someone goes to art school, they study many different artists and their techniques. They learn from these techniques as they merge them together in different ways to create novel art.

Everybody recognizes this is perfectly OK and to assume otherwise is absurd. So what we are talking about is not fair use, but extracting data from copyrighted material and using it to create novel material.

The distinction here is you claim when this process is automated, it should become illegal. Why?

My opinion is if it’s legal for a human to do, it should be legal for a human to automate.

10% of people who voted for Biden last time are switching to Trump according to a survey from a few months ago.

The Pentagon was actively spreading anti-vaxx misinformation in Asia. Claiming that the Chinese vaccine had pork (so Muslims wouldn’t use it), that vaccines weren’t effective, etc.

It was an attempt to destabilize Asia. There’s a Reuters article released a couple weeks ago on it. Happened summer 2020 -> summer 2021. So roughly half under Trump, half under Biden.

Although it wasn’t exactly a “Trump policy” or a “Biden policy”

Obviously they ultimately hold responsibility for what the Pentagon does because they are commander in chief, but the military did act very sketchy in this case. They essentially used loopholes by considering the “Asian cyperspace” an “active warzone” which allowed them to do certain things without authorization from the state department.

What’s the limit? This needs to be absolutely explicit and easy to understand because this is what LLMs are doing. They take hundreds of thousands of similar algorithms and they create an amalgamation of it.

When is it copying and when it is “inspiration”? What’s the line between learning and copying?

I have no problem copying code either. The question is at what point does it go from

1. I’m reading code and doing research

To

2. I’m copying code

How abstracted does it have to be before it’s OK? If you write a merge sort, it might be similar to the one you learned when you were studying data structures.

Should you make sure you attribute your data structure textbook every time you write a merge sort?

Are you understanding the point I’m trying to get at?

Well let’s say there’s an algorithm to find length of longest palindrome with a set of letters. I look at 20 different implementations. Some people use hashmaps, some don’t. Some do it recursively, some don’t. Etc

I consider all of them and create my own. I decide to implement myself both recursive and hash map but also add certain novel elements.

Am I copying code? Am I breaking copyright? Can I claim I wrote it? Or do I have to give credit to all 20 people?

As for forbidding patents on software, I agree entirely. Would be a net positive for the world. You should be able to inspect all software that runs on your computer. Of course that’s a bit idealistic and pipe-dreamy.

If I look at a few implementations of an algorithm and then implement my own using those as inspiration, am I breaking copyright law and circumventing licenses?

It depends how you define effective. Of course the consumer would prefer a free market with competition and low barriers to entry. This is the most egalitarian system, where money (and therefore power) gets distributed almost democratically.

It’s a liberal democratic version of capitalism. It’s the version of capitalism that works. Not perfectly, but it rises people out of poverty and is more or less egalitarian, relative to the alternatives.

Authoritarian capitalism is where you still have the large private sector except you don’t have the political freedoms. Think China post 1970s, modern Russia, Singapore.

The government essentially rewards companies that support the power structure. They get privileges and a say at the table. It creates a sort of incestuous relationship between the government and large corporate entities.

The US is moving towards this system as wealth inequality and corporate influence rises (more strongly under Biden than Trump, might I add. Probably to do with pandemic). More $$$ = more power. More power, more influence within the government. Creates a cycle where it’s a “buy your policy” type of democracy.

Slowly our political freedoms are being eroded. Mass surveillance, the CIA and Pentagon are now allowed to spread propaganda on US soil (they were not allowed to before early 2000s), erosion of democratic institutions through populism. For example “fake elections” and events like Jan 6th. We are starting to censor and ban outside views (“misinformation” bans from Covid, the banning of TikTok, Google & Facebook & reddit & Twitter regularly manipulate the information people receive and cooperate with the government)

Only some crazy number like 20% of people approve of Congress in this country. The democracy is falling apart and some new system is forming.

As China is opening up their private market to become more like us in terms of finance, big capital, corporate rights, etc. We are closing down our political system to become more like them in terms of the loss of political freedoms, censorship, etc.

You know how China has a strong centralized government and cooperates with their big companies? Government says jump, Huawei says how high?

We have a similar system. A strong centralized government that cooperates with the big companies. The primarily difference is that on the spectrum of

Government power <-----------> corporate power

The US leans more to the right.

Really what’s interesting is both the US and China are slowly converging onto a point in the middle. Zizek said something like this some years back… authoritarian capitalism is unfortunately the most effective form of capitalism.

I try to view it in a zoomed out perspective. Will either president meaningfully make life better?

And for that calculation I take into account a couple things.

A) quality of life for average people. You know- being able to afford your necessities. Being able to comfortably feed your family, pay your rent. Not having to stress about rent money or go into debt when your car breaks down

B) war. War brings chaos. Political and financial instability and average people (who are already not priorities) get put further back on the list. For example right now the US extending the length of Ukraine war is more important than controlling inflation or interest rates. Not to mention public money given to defense contractors that could be building homes for poor, feeding people, building infrastructure, etc

For reference, we have given Ukraine more $$$ (not counting lots of ways military deflates the real number) than Biden’s infrastructure bill allocated for public transportation, roads and bridges, and airports combined.

C) and this is my personal bias here. We have 13 million illegal immigrants. People contributing to this country, filling a gap in the labor market, paying taxes, and yet they have to live in fear. Imagine walking around your whole life scared to see a police officer come out from around the corner.

These people have been here decades and every successive Dem promises to do something. All we get is lip service.

If I thought Biden was meaningfully better on any of those 3, I would vote for him.

But I think he’s marginally better on A (maybe not because at least Trump was willing to flirt with a psuedo basic-income)

I think he’s marginally worse on B (Trump is not likely to start WW3 over Ukraine, although probably just as if not more over Taiwan/Israel)

On c) they are both the same. Biden separates families like Trump. He was using same covid loopholes Trump was using to detain lawful asylum seekers at border.

Sure Trump has more harmful rhetoric but a border wall really does not do anything. Majority of illegals come on valid tourist visas and overstay. It’s political theater.

Similar to my home state of Florida. DeSantis & Rubio (may God smite them down) pushed for a law to make it illegal to drive around an illegal immigrant.

Nevermind the fact that Florida has some of the highest rates in the country and that entire industries use them as the foundation (construction, agriculture, landscaping,etc). What happened when illegals started refusing to come to Florida?

They explained the law was symbolic, wasn’t actually meant to detain anyone. They don’t want real economic consequences. They just want to bang the xenophobic drum. It’s absurd.

You can take a million little things and make it seem meaningful but the average position for the American has not meaningfully improved in the last 3 years just like it did not improve under Trump.

One thing I think Trump is better on is his refusal to get involved in a war against Russia in Ukraine. On Israel they are both lunatics.

Sure, Biden is better than Trump. He’s passed some environmental laws. Not nearly enough, but 5% of the way there is better than -5% that Trump may bring. Sure.

His infrastructure bill, even watered down, was good for the country and we will see benefits well into the future. OK.

But inflation shot up to nearly 10% under him and the only reason it went down is because of the Federal Reserve’s persistent dampening on the economy through interest rate hikes. So now Americans have to contend with higher prices AND higher interest rates making it even harder to buy a home or even just finance a car.

Meanwhile our government is pumping out hundreds of billions of dollars funding wars across the world- maintaining that inflationary pressure while killing countless young men in pursuit of “geostrategic goals”. We keep Ukraine barely alive on an IV drip meant not to save them, but just keep them fighting Russia.

Meanwhile Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics shareholders are popping champagne cheering on the end of the world

Biden has went 180 on immigration. Mr “empathetic policy” on campaign is now Mr “expand the wall and have a photoshoot on the border with CBP officers”

Mr “make the Saudis a pariah state for chopping up journalists” on campaign becomes Mr “billion dollar arms deals”

I’m not saying Trump is better than Biden. I like Trump even less than I like Biden. But in terms of life for the average American, the difference is not significant enough to warrant this type of attitude.

“End of democracy” and all that nonsense. Democracy is already dead because we have to choose between two bombs that will wreck us in different ways.

Either way we’re inevitably going to war in the Middle East. Either way we’re inevitably going to war with China. Either way we are going to let the large oligopolies do what they want with our people. Either way the climate is fucked. Don’t tell me 5 or 10% fundamentally matters when in 100 years we have millions of climate refugees.

I say voye RFK just because he’s absurd. And absurd is better than the other two choices. Maybe it’ll wake up the Dems and force them to come back to reality. The GOP has become a death cult and there is no saving them.

We’re headed to war and fascism either way. We’re just choosing the manner in which we arrive there. My gut tells me it’s the MAGA variety

Trump and Biden are two sides of same coin. They are not so vastly different as you portend

So many Trump policies Biden continued it almost feels like we live in a satire

I would prefer Mr brain worn wins at this point

I don’t see where he equated his relevance with hers.

I understand and ultimately it’s impossible to quantify and compare these things. I’m not trying to defend his AIDs policies. I just grew up as an illegal and I understand what it’s like living in fear.

You see a police officer and you immediately get a flight or fight response. You need to find roundabout ways to get jobs, finance a car, or rent apartments. You never know if ICE will just show up to your house one day. Or if you pick up a family member from the airport and they ask for your papers (my old boss got deported that way. His girlfriend’s niece came to stay a week. He went to pick her up. CBP was waiting with her to get documents from whoever came to pick her up)

You have to pay taxes but you don’t get to apply for things everyone else does. You wanna go to community College? Tough shit, you don’t qualify for instate tuition so you’re paying 3x the normal price. Even if you’ve lived there for 15 years and did your entire elementary / high school in the state. You’re American in all ways except one- documents

Etc etc

There are over 10 million, I think around 13 million people living just like that.

And Trump is awful. But Biden pretended like he would do something, he promised immigration reform. Promised to halt construction of the wall. Instead he expands construction and the next day does a photoshoot at the border with CBP. Month or two ago he actually used the term “illegals”

Which in my opinion isn’t a big deal but for a lot of people showed how far right he has shifted

That’s why I brought up Reagan. He gave millions of illegals amnesty and essentially removed a constant anxiety and lifted up a people that were all hiding in the shadows.

No president has done anything like that. Obama is probably second place because of DACA. I would vote for him again in a heartbeat.

So yeah I understand Reagan did the AIDs thing not trying to diminish it although we are essentially picking between people who have all done awful things. Biden went and publicly bent the knee to Israel at the start of their invasion. Trump I don’t think I even need to elaborate on

Not a good thing but thousands of gays vs millions of illegals

Republicans today are not the same as Republicans back then. Reagan did more for illegal immigrants than any president since. I’d vote for him in a heartbeat if it was him versus the two bad jokes currently campaigning.

Ideally I’d have a 10 inch cock but unfortunately I gotta settle

I would want more research before mandating it as if it were lifesaving operations. But yeah, I agree in a general sense.

I think a lot of people that disagree would change their minds if they had a child with gender dysphoria. A lot of conservatives believe the parents are manipulating the child or seeing things that aren’t there.

But I’ve seen it before. I met a little boy maybe 8 or 9 years old in a very religious conservative household some years back. It was the neighbor of a family friend. Nobody manipulated him into saying stuff like “I’m a girl in a boy’s body”. Or trying to sneak makeup or dresses. They tried to pray it out of him. But it was persistent, year after year he would day these things.

I think the same thing with a lot of anti-gay people having a gay son or whatever. Once you meet someone like that it sort of becomes real and makes you realize “oh wow maybe I’m wrong”

I changed my mind after meeting that family and seeing the boy. I used to think differently on this.

Suicide rates for trans is almost 50%

I’m assuming a couple of things here in my logic

A) transitioning is an effective treatment for gender dysphoria and significantly lowers the suicide rate for these people

B) there is a medically accurate way to diagnosis gender dysphoria

So you say “one is death if not treated but the other is a life choice”

The trans thing is life or death too. If you have a child and they are displaying these types of behaviors (wanting to play with dolls as a boy, saying they are a girl, trying to wear dresses, etc) then you have a kid that is very very likely to kill themselves and have other mental health problems

Getting medical treatment ASAP is the logical thing to do

I know it’s still relatively new and can potentially be harmful to the child if not diagnosed properly. I also understand there are some crazy parents out there who project their BS onto their kids.

But I think as a parent I would want the best for my kid so I would do whatever it takes to make sure they have the best quality of life and just chance at life in general.

If they are going to transition, they will pass much better if they do it pre-puberty. By the time they’re in high school they would probably look imperceptibly like the opposite sex.

I would only want it done after rigorous tests by medical professional that absolutely rules out weirdo parents

If a kid has a heart condition and they have to have a risky surgery, the doctors ask the parents. Because the child is not old enough to understand the implications of these things.

I see gender dysphoria as a similar thing. The suicide rate is very high for these individuals so some form of treatment is essential if you care about your child. It’s the same as if they had a heart issue with like a 40% risk of dying. It’s life or death.

The transitioning process works best if it happens before puberty. When a child goes through puberty, the sexual hormones start pumping and that permanently changes many parts of the body. Literally the shape and size of bones will change.

If you catch gender dysphoria before puberty, the end result of the transition will be much more effective than doing it at 18 or 20. By that point there’s no going back from puberty.

So essentially - the child isn’t making a decision. The parents are making an informed medical decision based on a diagnosis by a medical professional.

I really don’t see this as any different than any other medical issue. The difference is this is unusual and many people think emotionally.